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Category: Interviews

  • Takeaways From ‘Denim Washing Changes In Near Future’ Webinar

    Takeaways From ‘Denim Washing Changes In Near Future’ Webinar

    Recently Denimsandjeans held a webinar ‘Denim Washing Changes In Near Future’ with some of very well known and globally reputed denim professionals . The panelists included :

    1.Vasco Pizarro – Sales & Marketing Director – Pizarro S.A
    2.Daniele Lovato – Head – Elleti Group, Tunisia
    3.Andrea Perego – Washing & Treating Specialist – 7 For All Mankind
    4.Luca Braschi – Creative Developer – Blue Alchemy (Consultant – Uniqlo & J Brand )

    The talk was moderated by Sandeep Agarwal . We now bring the comments of the panelists which came out during the talk.

    Some of the common points that came out during the discussion were as below but of course there was consensus of various other points of discussion.

    • Global standards need to be created by the industry only and implemented by the govt.
    • Cannot wait for consumers to demand sustainable products. brands and supply chain have to do it.
    • Technology is very important and we need to find ways to optimize usage of existing technologies and resources.

    Andrea Perego

    Andrea was of the opinion that the final consumer is more focused on the price and quality and he may sometime look at sustainabiity also . However, it is the job of brands and retailers to push it even if the consumer does not realize it is sustainable.

    Andrea Perego at the Webinar

    Technology – Andrea said “We are having a lot of new technology and we can do a lot of things with the technology and machines that are available in the market. Sustainable technology and washings are more expensive than normal one. Sustainabliity for me is also optimization of processes. A platform like HIGGS index can be useful to create global standards for sustainability.”

    Daniele Lovato

    He spoke of how too many people trying to get on the sustainability bandwagon and creating green washing . There are too many certifications and standards which dilute the efforts of sustainability and there is a need to narrow down these so that the efforts are more focused and customers can understand easily. He also said that solution for global standards must come from the industry.

    Daniele Lovato at the webinar

    DIFFERENT WASHES ASKED BY CONSUMERS – “Its like chicken and egg. Consumers will also be asking for new things but will also trust brands to do so . There will be shift to more visual, more authentic and not boring ! Online sales ensures sales of more photogenic and aggressive looks.”

    Tech : Circularity programme is very important to save resources. A circular product does not need only a ciruclar industrial process but needs to be engineered from the beginning as a circular garment. So its not only washing but the entire system that needs to adapt to circularity. He spoke about using data to use in our garment industry. There is very little raw data being used and the next big thing is the use of software, technologies, AI and other tools to all stakeholders in the supply chain and we are ignoring this at the moment. Data is king !

    Sustainability – When it becomes a standard across the industry – will be cheaper than producing traditionally. But until that moment it is going to be more expensive than standard one. In 2010-11 they offered their first eco collection called Earth keepers and prices were almost double compared to traditional but now the gap is closing . Currently a medium wash sustainable and same wash unsustainable – the difference would be 15-20%. Only on a higher scale of production the sustainable wash would be cheaper.

    Luca Braschi

    Luca mentioned that technologies like LASER AND OZONE lasers are very old but they were not used much . But now there is a push from the brands to use it more and more. He also spoke about new generation of chemicals which are synchronizing with these technologies to achieve the right result . It is currently a priority not only about matching samples of the customers but also to do in the right and sustainable ways.

    He did not expect much change in consumer awareness of sustainable products post covid . Consumers are looking for references and what brands can do is offer transparency . He also felt that demand for health and safety finishings was getting higher now.
    Performance properties are getting more and more important.

    Luca Braschi at the webinar

    “Technologies to sanitize existing garments so that huge inventories can be used appropriately has to be created. Have to use existing technologies in a better way by combining them. Working with very low liquid ratio – some machine makers are working on and can help.”

    Uniqlo set up their own R&D centre with very clear targets like saving water 95-99% converted with traditional methods and in 3-4 years combining available technologies like laser and ozone and new generation chemicals . Uniqlo is also transfering this technology to their contractors. Being a big organization like them also helps to push change .

    Being sustainable with a low price is a big challenge and that is being addressed. He felt that he did not like when the market is becoming technology addicted – the washers have also to use their brains to find solutions in existing resources. At the end numbers would justify that you did something sustainable. It is sometimes possible using simple technologies also .

    Most sustainable wash- At Uniqlo they did was a wash in which they dried the garment only once , combining all processes in same bath, created a laser application with real effects and not requiring another application and save over 95% water compared to traditional wash and used only three chemicals.

    Vasco Pizarro

    Vasco spoke about optimization and a resource conservation . Substituting PP spray and stones. Since Pizarro is located in Portugal where the costs are high, they to optimize resources. Eg they have aaved over what 50% in steam used.

    Vasco also mentioned that there is too much focus on washing whereas the impact on evironment during cotton production, yarn and fabric production and ultimately how garment is used is ignored. Too many certifications are focused on washing and miss the above points including the human impact. He did not see much special demand seen for health and safety finishings.

    Vasco Pizarro at the webinar

    Speaking on technolgoies, he also felt that a lot of road needs to be covered with existing technolgoies. He mentioned that they had developed a zero closed water system with Jeanologia which can have a great impact and enables them to use same water in our washing for 22 days with marginal loss . This saves hundreds of thousands of litres per month.

    He also mentioned that re-purposing existing technologies like ozone would be important. Wiser wash technology has been very well accepted on the market. Pizarro also has programmes with retailers on the garments that are already at the stores and are not selling for re-treating and re-purposing them. They work out special processes to help them re-purpose . He also was of strong view that competitors must talk to each other and try to create industry standards.

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  • Aamir Akhtar At ‘What Next For Denim’ Webinar

    Aamir Akhtar At ‘What Next For Denim’ Webinar

    Recently Denimsandjeans held a webinar ‘What Next For Denim’ with some of very well known and globally reputed denim professionals . The panelists included :

    1. Albert Candiani (Owner – Candiani Mills) 2. Aamir Akhtar (CEO- Arvind Mills) 3. Alberto De Conti( Head Of Fashion Division- Rudolf) 4. Maurizio Donadi (Co-Founder – Atelier & Repairs) 5. Carlos Arias (CEO- Jeanologia) 6. Stefano Aldighieri( President – Another Design Studio)

    The talk was moderated by Sandeep Agarwal and Stefano Aldighieri. We now bring the comments of the panelists of our key questions related to denim industry in a series of six articles with each article giving clear views of each panelist.

    In the current article, we bring the thoughts of Aamir Akhtar – CEO Arvind Limited, India . We share his original comments on some of the questions that were put to him during the discussion . (video of his talk )

    WHAT IS THE WAY FORWARD FOR DENIM?

    We are talking about denim industries and denim industry is so all encompassing from fibers to yarns to the manufacturer to the distribution to the brands and retail, there will be huge amount of churning in the whole industry and every part of the industry -starting of the retailer .And we have been seeing what is really happening. The weaker ones really are going through a lot of aggravation of Chapter11.

    And the fact is that with so many distractions we had till now . Not distractions but alternate options for consumers – which is right from holiday to eating out , to vacations , to cell phone etc. Continuously apparel including jeans has been losing shares to these other industries. So, to be honest , I think the apparel industry in general and denim industry in particular has got a breather. 

    For some time people will not be able to travel, people will not be able to go to restaurants or go less to the restaurants. So that money is available to the consumers. Let’s say jeans or a unit cost of jeans being low- it’s instant gratification at a low cost. 

    So I think Stefano’s point was very interesting and the biggest fallout we have seen in the supply chain of the current pandemic is the problem of cash flows all across, and I think the biggest source of cash flow problem has been the inventories. So it’s the brands, retailers and the supply chain which is holding onto large inventories, and which is driving this whole cash flow problem which is driving chapter11 and all those issues. 

    The current model in our industry is sort of the way it is, about almost a year or 12 or 14 or 16 months in advance we’re expecting some people to take a decision on behalf of a consumer as to what they are going to buy and that is unfair, it’s impossible, it’s practically just not possible. 

    So that means taking those calls and producing goods in advance  way-way years in advance. And expecting those goods to sell, I think that’s where the fundamental problem is. 

    Possibly, I don’t know it’s not going to happen overnight, it will not be an event but as a continuum . I believe this experience, this very sort of unfortunate experience, possibly one can see a shift in the business model of industries. 

    If you see the automobile industry with whatever has happened due to Uber/App based taxi service,the industry itself has got disrupted where people move away from owning assets into the service.

    People are realizing that there are assets that can run and deliver more value. So, rather than you own assets and it is more convenient to avail the service, it is less costly. So, in our industry also possibly there could be this shift towards pull based supply chains. Right now, it’s all being pushed, so you’re manufacturing, you’re deciding and you’re pushing things to stores and to consumers and finally then it doesn’t sell which ends up in landfills. 

    Possibly, there’s a case for you know pull based industry and its power to the consumers so it masks all the things (all the cool things we’ve been hearing about till now )and we have thought they are which were very hypothetical. But possibly when seeing this that there is value in this where its mass customizations, its manufacturing to the requirement of the consumers rather than taking calls on behalf of the consumers.

    And today there are technologies available where you can produce 1 unit, you don’t have to spend billions of yards of fabric and stuff like that.

    So, possibly one could see a shift towards that direction.

    WHAT ARE THE 3 THINGS DENIM INDUSTRY NEED TO DO?

    I personally feel as an industry, to give direction to the industry like if you draw parallel from the other industries. For ex. Automobile industry has seen a destruction over the coming of electric vehicles (e- V’s) and we saw that phone industry going through a huge change when you got smartphones. LED TV has been able to disrupt the television industries.

    So even now industry technology if you see what has happened for ex. Carlos from Jeanologia – what laser has done to the industry, it is really destructive, the whole garment finishing part of the industry. So, it’s way more sustainable, efficient, less losses and lower cost. 

    So I think there are multiple technologies which one can see in the industries from dyeing in a very efficient manner with low cost and in a sustainable manner to multiple phases we are seeing in an industry eg recycling. And I personally feel that this technology has the power of being able to make the industry more efficient, more sustainable, bring down costs as well reduce wastages.

    So, this whole thing about using technology – that’s to me is one of the important parts because it can take the industry to the next level and give a new direction to the industry. And all these things will become a subset of that- sustainability, circularity that’s a one point. 

    The other point is that I believe that our industry we watch and pay design people. We have got some very good design talent, operation talent, merchandising talent and management. The managerial part of the industry is very important, because for the industry to create value, attracting good talent to be industry. So like you have the challenge going to other industries and creating disproportionate value to the other industry. Unfortunately as an industry we’ve not been able to attract great talent where we have been able to create value for the stakeholders. So if you end up doing that then more capital will flow to the industry. People will start seeing this industry as creating a lot of value.

    So these are the few things that came into my mind.

    Watch our all episodes of #CovidTimes talks and Webinar at our official YouTube channel

  • Stefano Aldighieri At ‘What Next For Denim’ Webinar

    Stefano Aldighieri At ‘What Next For Denim’ Webinar

    Recently Denimsandjeans held a webinar ‘What Next For Denim’ with some of very well known and globally reputed denim professionals . The panelists included :

    1. Albert Candiani (Owner – Candiani Mills) 2. Aamir Akhtar (CEO- Arvind Mills) 3. Alberto De Conti( Head Of Fashion Division- Rudolf) 4. Maurizio Donadi (Co-Founder – Atelier & Repairs) 5. Carlos Arias (CEO- Jeanologia) 6. Stefano Aldighieri( President – Another Design Studio)

    The talk was moderated by Sandeep Agarwal and Stefano Aldighieri . We now bring the comments of the panelists of our key questions related to denim industry in a series of six articles with each article giving clear views of each panelist.

    In the current article, we bring the thoughts of Stefano Aldighieri  â€“ ex creative head of Levi’s and 7FAM and currently running his own design studio . Besides co-moderating the panel, Stefano also shared his own views on various questions put forward at the panel. We share his original comments on some of the questions that were put to him during the discussion . (video of his talk is here )

    What is the way forward for denim? 

    We need to look at reduction of quantities, we need to really look at the value priority for all of us and I think that’s going to change quite dramatically the way people buy, not only what they buy and why they buy. So the whole thing is pretty much going to be different. 

    One day we’ll wake up from the nightmare , we’re going to find a very different world and it’s actually up to us to make sure that it is a better world, because going back to the way things were before, it’s not something we should aspire to because normalcy, the old normality is what got us into this mess in the first place. So we should really take this opportunity to clean the slate, and start all over again in some shape or form. I know it’s  utopian to think that we can reinvent the whole planet overnight, but I think there’s a lot of things that we can do, now that we know better. I think this is also, like some of us who were saying, this is basically accelerating the process that was already on its way. We are very sad to see a lot of big retailers going under now. 

    There’s going to be more and more bankruptcies. There’s a new one every day now but, to be absolutely fair and objective, we had way over capacity in  retail, especially in the Western world. I’m not talking about emerging countries, where things are still in the early days, and hopefully they won’t make this mistake . We have way too many stores, and more importantly, we have too many stores selling exactly the same stuff with no differentiation. 

    The only differeantiation I’m trying to be 50 cents cheaper than you. That’s no differentiation, that’s just me trying to screw my suppliers more, so that I can try to keep my margins. That’s not a sustainable business. Sustainability is about the planet, but it’s also about the people, and it’s about the profits and if you don’t look at all the three elements you really have nothing. So I think at the end of day it is not as horrible as this is. 

    I think this is a wonderful opportunity for all of us to start fresh and start doing things better; I think that is there is a general misunderstanding in what design actually means, because to most people, and unfortunately even in our industry, the designer is just the guy or the girl that we ask ”let’s just make it pretty”, make it nice for the customer. That is a complete misunderstanding. The design process is what actually determines the whole lifecycle of the garment. 

    If we took more attention in the design process of our garments, the whole thing would be much easier . They look at ways on how they can minimize the footprint, but they’re trying to retrofit something in a process that is not designed for that. The right approach is actually to take a look at the whole life cycle of the garment from the get-go and say this is what my garment is, the lifecycle of a garment is this is, and what it’s going to happen to the garment at the end, when people stop using it,  where is it going to go, how it’s going to be disposed of. 

    So you really have to look at every single step, let me look at the raw materials that I’m using, let me look at the yarns , where is the cotton coming from, where is  the dye stuff coming from, which factory is going to make it, how they’re going to make it, what is the most efficient way to avoid waste for fabric, what kind of chemicals can I use, how  to reduce my main packaging, how can I make sure that the packaging does not just end up  on the shop floor, and how do I make sure that the garment at the end of the day when it’s exhausted,  its  usefulness as a garment, maybe can can be  used again for something else. So being able to be recycled – to be upcycled, down cycled – and somehow avoid it going into a landfill.

    What are the 3 key things the denim industry needs to do?

    It’s three priorities. One is pretty much a given, we will have to look into rationalizing both fabric basis and garment basis because it’s quite frankly out of control. We think we’re also smart but we are really a bunch of idiots. How many fabrics have you made over the history of your company – maybe fifteen thousand, but how many of those are really truly different fabrics. Similarly, how many fabrics have you made just because we cannot say no to a customer – I say no we have this one, it’s exactly what you need, and eventually we end up looking at incredible amounts of stocks out there, and inventories piling up all over the place. That is all actually perfectly good, there’s nothing wrong with it, but we fell into this trap of this, it has to be new at all cost. We have to have a seasonal “newness”. 

    What is the  seasonal meaning in denim?  Denim is the same fabric that you can wear all year round, a lot of these things  are self-inflicted. So I think now we’re going to be forced to look at these things more rationally and the reduction of quantity will come as a consequence;  I’m not advocating that we should raise our prices on everything. I understand very well there’s a lot of people who cannot afford to buy expensive clothes so it’s not like overnight we can say I reduced my quantities by 50% and increased my prices by 25% . It’s not that simple, but one thing that we should work on together as an industry is to try and educate people. 

    We’ve done a phenomenal job at mis-educating our customers, and let them believe that it was okay to buy all disposable stuff. I think people should realize that it’s not. An old saying  says “I am too poor to afford cheap clothes” and it’s very true, if you buy cheap stuff , you end up spending a lot more at the end of the day because you’re going to have something that is not going to last, is not going to have any quality, any strength or anything. So that’s one major change that I want to see in the industry. 

    Second one, we’ve been talking , ad nauseam , about sustainability for the last three years, I hope people will not forget it right away. They say we’re in survival mode now we cannot afford to spend more to try to recycle or to try to make better use of our resources. I see recycling facilities are struggling right now . Used garments cannot be shipped because there’s a fear of contamination. So there’s a lot of issues that we need to need to focus on and the third one that I think is pretty essential is that we really need to start looking at the definition of partnership again because it’s something that people have been talking about for so long .

    Partnership is out of the window, and so many customers have shifted into panic mode; it’s not a judgment call. I understand that when you’re really having your back to the wall , you have to look at trying to save your skin and it’s easier to look at the immediate problems that you have to face now. We have to be  looking at the consequences down the line, but all these partnerships that we’ve been talking about are pretty much moot right now. 

    We need partnerships more than ever, brands, retailers, factories, textile operations. We all have to work together because that’s the only way to get out of this. We can’t just keep pushing the buck down the line and just allow the lowest part of the operation to suffer the most, that’s just not right.

    Stefano also quickly answered some more questions which were raised by the participants at the webinar .

    Q.How important is HEMP and HEMP-blends going to be in the next few years?
    A. I think the time is finally coming for Hemp to become a viable alternative to cotton.
    Q.How does the panel see traceability of denim (from seed to garment)? What role Blockchain will play in that traceability process? Is the industry ready to collaborate to form different consortia that drive full transparency and elevated efficiency?
    A. Traceability is indeed one of the biggest challenges that our industry faces; it has never been seriously tackled but it seems to be getting more traction now, there are a few interesting technologies already available, hopefully we will manage to find a common standard.
    Q.Could Denim Fabrics be 100% Recycled?
    A.Yes, it could; more importantly, can it be 100% recyclable? This is a more important question, and more difficult to answer.
    Q.Talking about Brands making mIstakes “Where do you think Iconic Brands like Diesel and EXPRESS stand?
    A. Diesel has been on an incredible trajectory for many years and eventually, I think, has become too big and lost its original “soul”. They should look back and stay true to what made them great in the beginning. I don’t think Express is an iconic brand, sorry!

    Watch our all episodes of #CovidTimes talks and Webinar at our official YouTube channel
  • Alberto De Conti At What Next For Denim Webinar

    Alberto De Conti At What Next For Denim Webinar

    Recently Denimsandjeans held a webinar ‘What Next For Denim’ with some of very well known and globally reputed denim professionals . The panelists included :

    1. Albert Candiani (Owner – Candiani Mills) 2. Aamir Akhtar (CEO- Arvind Mills) 3. Alberto De Conti( Head Of Fashion Division- Rudolf) 4. Maurizio Donadi (Co-Founder – Atelier & Repairs) 5. Carlos Arias (CEO- Jeanologia) 6. Stefano Aldighieri( President – Another Design Studio)

    The talk was moderated by Sandeep Agarwal and Stefano Aldighieri . We now bring the comments of the panelists of our key questions related to denim industry in a series of six articles with each article giving clear views of each panelist.

    In the current article, we bring the thoughts of Ablerto De conti – head of fashion division Rudolf from  from LA. We share his original comments on some of the questions that were put to him during the discussion . (video of his talk is here )

    WHAT IS THE WAY FORWARD FOR DENIM?

    This question made me really uncomfortable because forecasting is very difficult especially when it involves the future. Right before getting into this call, we had another call with my director of the company who is trying to figure out what to do for the rest of 2020 and how is this going to look like and that was not an easy exercise at all.

    I think the only intelligent way to try and forecast the future is to observe the present . This season is more difficult. What I see is that the epidemic is being a reality check for a critical mass of people in many difficult ways.

    I feel personal values will be shifted and in some cases people after a couple of months to lockdown have realized that one can really live with much less. We’re going back to basically what we were saying before.

    Now I don’t really want to go down and negatively speak about it. In addition, we need 20-30 million newly employed people in the USA as they lost the jobs. I’m thinking rationally. I really don’t think that buying jeans with the latest trends and washes is necessarily going to be at the top of everybody’s mind.

    If we know the history of our beloved blue friends ,that denim has always supported the needs of the society. Denim is considered as one of the symbols of rebellion in the past during the 60’s and 70’s and not as a fashion statement. Now, the way forward with the denim industry if you ask me is being able to re-look  what citizens really need from them.

    Sustainability remains one of major importance and there are Titans in industry represented here by Jeanologia, Candiani who have done monumental work on sustainability. Sustainability today is a ticket to play, it’s more of an expectation from consumers that has been a reason to buy.

    I tell you one story. Our production in Germany of chemical auxiliaries is booked throughout July for this year  for the production of auxiliaries for textile to provide functionality, not fashion. And to me that’s a big thing.

    WHAT ARE THE 3 KEY THINGS DENIM INDUSTRY NEEDS TO DO?

    From our perspectives as a chemical company we are really low in the food chain, the last guys of the book.From our perspective what we feel is that there is an overall lack of vision and I would say not necessarily throughout the value chain. 
    Sometimes there is a rush to go to the market when the season is coming and you don’t necessarily think or look at the whole picture, really trying to go to market in a way that someone can approve it.

    But if I have to think of the three things that right now the industry should focus on well what could be done with the massive inventory that is in the warehouses around the world which can not be used before the next season over years. There should be a clear priority and I really hope that you know efforts are being made there in order to understand what can be done. Then the second because fast fashion completely drew the consumer towards the commodity world, and because once again to a commodity world, you really are not adding any value. 

    There should be a focus on the new found law for quality longer lasting products and better product design which is what we were you know talking about and then that requires a fundamental revolution within brands and retailers.

    And then the third that there should be focused on is , there are way too many suppliers and customers of ours that are suffering and lead to bankruptcy because of questionable commercial behaviors. I think the industry in the entire world needs to focus on ethics that are real which are sometimes missing.

    There should be some ethics and there should be some enforcement program. I don’t know exactly how the transformer foundation led by Andrew Ola is really working out but I can tell you that there are ideas we put in place.

    And for the industry, to resolve programs with mediation and I think something needs to be done in that area, otherwise the entire value chain is going to suffer and we are going to lose an incredible part. So, this would be my three areas to focus on.

    Watch our all episodes of #CovidTimes talks and Webinar at our official YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/user/denimsandjeans/videos

  • Maurizio Donadi At ‘What Next For Denim’ Webinar

    Maurizio Donadi At ‘What Next For Denim’ Webinar

    Recently Denimsandjeans held a webinar ‘What Next For Denim’ with some of very well known and globally reputed denim professionals . The panelists included :

    1. Albert Candiani (Owner – Candiani Mills) 2. Aamir Akhtar (CEO- Arvind Mills) 3. Alberto De Conti( Head Of Fashion Division- Rudolf) 4. Maurizio Donadi (Co-Founder – Atelier & Repairs) 5. Carlos Arias (CEO- Jeanologia) 6. Stefano Aldighieri( President – Another Design Studio)

    The talk was moderated by Sandeep Agarwal and Stefano Aldighieri . We now bring the comments of the panelists of our key questions related to denim industry in a series of six articles with each article giving clear views of each panelist.

    In the current article, we bring the thoughts of Maurizio Donadi – the owner at famous upcycling brand Atelier & Repairs from LA. We share his original comments on some of the questions that were put to him during the discussion . (video of his talk here )

    What is the way forward for denim? 

    The virus has basically not only destroyed all logics to our industry but also gave us an opportunity to start afresh and I think that it is true that we have the knowledge, the technology, the experience, and the desire of fixing this industry and we have the capability of engineering in particularly in the world of denim what good denim is all about . In the name of global domination we have designed and made horrible problems and I think that needs to stop.

    I think that the idea of reducing intelligently, designing differently, and selling with honesty instead of selling with a price point and I believe that we will all benefit and the people that will benefit the most will be the citizens of the world who should know about trends and stories and point of views and opinions because that’s what globalization is.

    Globalization is a free sharing of ideas and now with the digital world instantaneously. At the same time we need to recover from this madness, from this situation locally.

    I think there is an incredible opportunity for the return of the made in Italy, the return of made in the USA, the return of the made in anywhere, made in India and the competition should be in improving greatly the way we from design from concept all the way to execution is an opportunity to really re-engineer all of this and I am not in the business of producing but I am in the business of transforming what already exists.

    I would say as I am the spectator of a lot of the mistakes that brands have made and I can tell you that that and I think it’s public knowledge that we have to stop thinking about people as consumers and customers and we have to start thinking about people as citizens and knowing that they will vote your company or not according to their honesty of your story.

    And I think that the story is more important than the product.

    Storytelling is a marketing tool that make you enamored with a company that do not deserve to be bought and I think that’s the science of marketing which is no longer support for beautiful product but it is intellectual terrorism in creating chaos and desire for things that we don’t need and after six to eight weeks of isolation.

    I think that we know pretty good what we need in life and what we don’t need anymore and we will be able to vote about food, about homes, about people, about goods, and ultimately about denim because that’s what is needed . It’s the rethinking of our life and the new re-imagination and a new building of our lives starts from a very difficult time . And that’s when people are the most effective  and when the innovation starts . Sorry the gift that we got from this bloody virus is that we had for the first time time to think about all the things that are wrong and all the things that are good and important to us and denim being the one of the most democratic house for your body that we have an opportunity to really make it useful, utilitarian, beautiful, sustainable, traceable, longer, long lasting best product we can ever made.

    I think that the citizen will understand the effort. 

    The brands truly need to conceptualize their brands and their product line . They should design a lot less and design with a lot more expertise because you have been producing product for brand in general that did not have the knowledge and the experience of designing right .How many time I went to factory where the workers were laughing at the way things were constructed because the design was wrong to start with .Of course there are amazing designers and so forth, but what is designed for denim so I think that the design process today in big company is also considered a cost. 

    So being creative is a cost for large corporations that are dominated by supply chain in which their only interest is in the status quo right . They don’t want to change anything – it took them 30 years to build their books and we are telling now that they need to change the books ????
    Well my answer would be absolutely so now or you’re gone in two or three years or be happy to be 1/10 of the revenues that you are you were generating pre virus.

    So I think that that’s the wake-up call for brands which need to revolutionize the method from design to execution and the commerce of it and for the industry, for the manufacturing industry to evolve because the needs now are different.

    What are three Key Things the Denim Industry needs to do?

    I’m thinking about three things instinctively . One requires zero investment financial investment it’s called rethinking of our values , our principles and the way we work . I think that every company , every individual and every company should have this conversation with itself, himself/herself and ourselves what our company stands for and why are we in business , for what type of business we want and how we want to conduct ourselves .So that to me is number one .
    Number two is I believe that we have no other alternative than collaborating spirit of collaboration is it’s something that it’s fundamental nowadays. I mean we all suffer from the same illness we are all suffering from the same crisis from the same virus from the same financial challenges . I think that there is enough culture , knowledge and willingness to create alliances so we can all together solve some of the issues that we have so . And good point about involving citizens into this is because they have also something to say and we can learn from them instead of using them as consumer we use them as in inspirer of a new way of thinking and the third element is in dispute of this idea.

    The third point to me is changing mentality in the way we design a made product . I think all of you know I will always vote for good product better core product and and and then the big question about denim is that then when I say the changing mentalities of course is about denim and my question for everybody is :

    Is denim the name of five pocket pair of pants???

    (Maurizio left us with this question and we leave our readers to answer this question to themselves or share comments below to this question)

    Watch our all episodes of #CovidTimes talks and Webinar at our official YouTube channel – https://www.youtube.com/user/denimsandjeans/videos

  • A Talk On Cambodian Situation With Karthikeyan

    A Talk On Cambodian Situation With Karthikeyan

    Cambodia is one important garment manufacturing location and it was important to understand how the current #covidtimes situation has affected this country and its working. Sandeep Agarwal spoke live to Karthikeyan V – ex country manager of C&A – (on our Instagram ) to understand how the change in global sourcing dynamics after covid is affecting Cambodia. Here are some excerpts from the talk . 

    Sandeep
    Hi Karthikeyan. Hope you are fine ! I heard that Cambodia has been doing quite well in terms of managing this crisis much better than many other countries .

    Karthikeyan
    I am fine Sandeep and hope the same for you .
    In Cambodia I would say from the day one till now there have been 122 cases and out of which 119 cases have been treated and only three cases are still being treated. The government had implemented certain restrictions during the celebration of Cambodian New Year which was in the middle of April.

    Today being the Labor Day May 1st, the government has asked no more public gathering and requested public celebrate it at home, so the government has been very cautious and moreover that the surrounding countries have also implemented the travel bans and not many travellers are coming in, so it’s a combination of both together and we have to be careful and the government is also warning is about the second wave. So we look forward and we hope everything goes in the right direction and the world recovers very fast.

    Sandeep
    Absolutely ! Cambodia has been in kind of a turmoil since last year when European Countries started to put pressure on the government and for various issues and I think they have also partially revoked EBA to Cambodia, so can you tell a little more about that all things.

    Karthikeyan
    Cambodia had its own challenges in a global sourcing market , it had the EBA- Everything But Arms, where European Union was offering duty-free benefits to all the products except for arms. However based on various studies / Investigation and so on by the middle of February 2020, European Union made a Conclusion / Judgment that part of the products like menswear will lose its benefit in terms of duty and the rest of the products ladies and children will still have the duty-free benefits. This will be effective from September 01, 2020.

    Sandeep
    So all men’s wear will no longer have duty benefits however the rest of the products including Kids and Women wear will still be able to avail the duty benefits. 

    Karthikeyan
    Yes.

    Sandeep
    Can you tell us more about  Apparel Export Business Loss due to this from Cambodia?

    Karthikeyan
    When we look at the business in Cambodia, 18bn dollar is the total export revenue which was earned in 2018-19 out of which 64% is mainly out of the apparel sector (ie about $12 billion) and out of this 46% came from Europe and from the USA ,24% of export revenue generated and the rest is scattered across Japan, Canada and other countries. So out of this 46%,15% comes from Menswear straight away, that’s the expected numbers.

    Sandeep
    All right, so I mean that business of around 7% of total apparel revenue is already gone now.

    Karthikeyan
    Yes, there were requests made to the European Union / Commission by the Garment exporters to reconsider; however the decision arrived on February 12th that they are partially revoking EBA benefits. 

    Sandeep
    Coming to Corona Crisis, after this issue of EBA which already created a crisis like situation and now this Corona is also here ,now what is the situation after this crisis how it is affected industry, how is this going to affect the workers out there and what other steps are being taken to
    manage the crisis?

    Karthikeyan
    So as I said Cambodia had its own challenges in the past and one of them was EBA and the second part was increasing wages. When you position Cambodia against the neighbouring countries or manufacturing countries like Bangladesh, Myanmar, when the wages are compared still Cambodia is on the higher side, so the manufacturing cost per se has been the highest between these three countries. 

    Why I pick these three countries is due to GSP benefits . Europe is dependent on GSP plus benefits so when you see that Bangladesh is one number, two is Myanmar and third is Cambodia in terms of pricing . So then with the EBA, the situation was not very certain whether only a partial will be there or the complete withdrawal. So because of these problems part of the high summer 2020 and winter 2020 orders which were to be produced between March September. 

    Further the orders for this year are getting affected due to covid situation.The raw materials are coming from outside Cambodia and because of the Covid, the raw material movement was affected and finally now we are talking about the store closures in Europe and US so on. So that by its permutation and combinations due to all Cambodia lost its share considerably for the time being.

    Sandeep
    So far as the raw materials are concerned, does it mainly come from China?

    Karthikeyan
    Yes, Major part from China but there are other countries as well including Pakistan, Korea and Vietnam.Organic Materials from India too.

    Sandeep
    I heard that a lot of workers have lost their jobs due to the Covid and now the government is paying some compensation, can you tell a little more about that?

    Karthikeyan
    Yes, in this crisis situation the government is stepping forward to support the garment workers and the manufacturers, the manufacturers will pay about $30 and the government will pay about $40 per worker, so that means per worker will get $70 and this will be paid until the work is suspended. If the factory is normally functioning then there is no aid from the government however if the factory cannot run or if it has to be suspended then the government steps in and supports it. 

    They are getting $70 now, however currently the wage is about $190 dollars and the average take-home of a worker can be anything between $250 plus, so now because of the suspension, the worker will get about $70.

    Sandeep 
    So let’s say if we compared the regions which include Cambodia, Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam, so what are the changing dynamics now after this crisis?

    Karthikeyan
    It is too early to arrive at any conclusion at this point of time, the reason being that the Asian countries are predominantly dependent on European market and the US market. So where the stores have not opened completely but there are a few stores opened starting this week or end of last week in Germany and France is expecting to open from May 11th . So there are many changes happening now and hence at this point of time it is very difficult to arrive at a clear picture as to which country is going to be benefited.

    Sandeep
    But some countries have better Vertical Integration creation like Vietnam has a better vertical integration

    Karthikeyan
    Yes, going forward if you look at how the industry is going to change in terms of supply chain then there comes the speed, vertical integration and price so these three will be the main criteria because globally if you see the prediction is such that around 50% of the labor force including staff or the workforce will be jobless, that’s a very hard number to believe. However, that is a prediction according to which unemployment is going on now from various countries. So in that sense the spending power of the people will go down drastically and when the spending power goes down drastically, then if you are pricing your product at the same price level nobody’s going to walk in and buy it.

    The Customers want a better product and quality. Those use and throw culture is gone so they’ll be buying for the basic very important ones ,all the kids grow every now and then so they have to buy the new clothes for the kids so these are the two main areas where the products are needed in stores really often.

    So when people buy they will not be looking at high brands or luxurious brands to buy ; even the people who are buying from the luxurious brands they’ll be thinking twice at this time- should I spend so much to buy? why should I not think of something which gives a better quality and better price at a better price? Why don’t I look at options? they will be going to cheaper brands, they’ll be looking at discounts and so on so. If that is the mentality of the customers, what about buyers? and they will not be able to survive at the lower prices and discounts and so on. They also need to look at better products at a cheaper price  thereby there will be a demand for a cheaper price which again if you are talking about Europe they will be looking at GSP markets where there will be a direct benefit with the duty benefits. 

    So Bangladesh,  Myanmar and Cambodia these three countries have the GSP plus benefits. Price will be the one of the main points to consider going forward besides sustainability. Sustainability a few years back was a point to discussion but now this becomes the base, sustainable social compliance all these becomes a base how do we put the price in a sustainable way so that’s going to be the way forward.

    Sandeep
    But when we are talking about better quality and price – that is what that has been there even before also, people have been always wanting a cheaper product and at a better quality so the fight has been there always . So now with this COVID, the supply chain actually is in a much weaker position .Would they be able to really offer cheaper prices and better quality? Do you think that will work out?

    Karthikeyan
    That’s the challenge way forward. What are the options ? so we need to look at all the possibilities to make it happen if there is no spending power nobody is going to spend because the customer will not spend more or the same amount for the same quality of product. If a person is going to buy a product he will be looking at a longer lifespan for the same amount of money this is the challenge lying in front of us .How do we solve this . You need to put hands together – from the brands to the manufacturers to the raw material side to everybody make it happen.

    Sandeep
    Who are the main retailers who are working in Cambodia and are they still there or they have exited the country in crisis?

    Karthikeyan
    Okay for the time being, I would say as the stores are not completely operational. If the stores are completely operational then deriving a strategy for a slightly long term is possible and that’s where the sourcing footprints come in ,which country has to be positioned where and all that . But now we are having a COVID crisis where the stores are not opening ; in that sense the plans based on the situation will be short term not long term, so based on the short term the geographical shifts might happen from one product to another product in different countries.
    For example Cambodia has got its own strengths of circular knits and flat knits . It might retain these two products over . Bangladesh and Myanmar. there are strong supply partners under development in other countries as well so in the sense at this point of time today or
    In the next few weeks there will be no strategy from any brands, that’s what I believe .All the brands would ask for suspension or postponement or partly cancellation . So this will continue until the situation revives a little bit , when the situation in Europe or the US rest of the countries is little positive . Then there comes a slightly longer short term plan – it is not still a long term plan.

    Sandeep
    And what are the main brands working there?

    Karthikeyan
    Adidas, H&M, Carrefour, M&S, Lidl, PVH ,Ralph Lauren and Uniqlo and so on. There are many  other big global retailers ,players here at this point of time and there is no clear sign of exit  strategy from any of the buyers that I have come across.

    As the stores open, they will have to see how the consumers are going to behave in terms of buying power and basket size and what kind of mentality they are having or are they going for quality ? So there are so many permutations combinations and this is too early to decide because the stores have not been completely opened in all the locations.

    Sandeep
    Do you see any changes in the demand for these kinds of products post COVID? You’ve already mentioned the surge in Kids clothing, I would like to ask if there are other changes you’re anticipating

    Karthikeyan
    First we spoke about quality and at the same time what I also see we are going to be looking at is the workwear and children wear. Even in workwear there is a possibility that there is a need for antibacterial and bacteria resistant finished garments going forward  and more sustainable fibres.

    These are the fiber related and finish related and already brands in India and some of the brands across globe also have started importing masks- tailor-made masks to fit in the shirts or the work wear .So it goes as a combination now and in industry many people are working around to put some embroidery or Prints on the mask which was also displayed on your page Denimandjeans So I see so that’s the direction . I feel for now it is a short-term direction until the vaccination is found and all the people have taken the vaccination across globe so until then this mentality towards the products will be more towards health .And how do we be safe and healthy as well, so we spend very wisely this is where I see the future is going to be.

    Sandeep
    So Cambodian Garment Industries are also getting orders for manufacturing these health gears and protective garments?

    Karthikeyan
    Not many of them, very little because not many countries are open for import and export so thereby the requirements as of now there globally. I have been hearing a lot of requirements but at the end export is a question how do we make it happen? Raw materials and so on so there are questions and there are difficulties and it is going to take some more time to streamline all this to get into those interesting lines .

    Sandeep
    And there’s a lot of investment coming into Cambodia from different countries including China now so after this crisis those investments will be affected?

    Karthikeyan
    Well, as I said the way forward will be something like vertical integration I believe. The reason being the stores are not open for quite some time and when the customers come in to be proactive so they can get time to supply. 

    The countries which have vertical integration like China or India or Bangladesh or Vietnam would be able to supply faster . Cambodia is very close to Vietnam and if the fabric raw materials are sourced from Vietnam there is a high possibility Cambodia garment industry gains but a lot more to do in terms of vertical integration within the country, that’s the way forward, that’s the future I believe in .

    Sandeep
    What about Chinese Investment in Cambodian Industry?

    Karthikeyan
    Vertical integration is one way to think of at the moment. The investments were coming in ; there were at least seventy eight projects signed off between Jan 2019 till Jan 2020. So post this crisis we need to really see because the whole world was suffering from COVID19 and we will see it in a couple of months if there will be more investments and in which direction it is going.

    Sandeep
    As you already mentioned, the countries which are vertically integrated will be a better place?

    Karthikeyan
    Absolutely, so it is not necessarily for woven’s alone, we are strong in knits, summer inner garments we are pretty strong in summer garments and one advantage for Cambodia is also licensed articles.

    Sandeep
    Okay and coming towards the end what positives do you see coming out of this crisis?

    Karthikeyan
    The positives as of now what I see what I hear from different brands and their seminars all over I see the people have been utilizing this situation to a greater extent and conducting their business online . We’re already focusing on online the sense and we’re going forward also would be online and speed the positive will be speed so if you want to be in the race then it is going to be survival of the quickest. If you think out-of-the-box innovative and simplify the overall operations and see how we can reduce the lead time so we need to keep on thinking innovatively to come out of this situation as fast as possible. 

    Sandeep
    Let’s hope for the best, and I really thank you for joining us and sharing so much information and wish you all the best.

    Karthikeyan
    Thank you. It’s my pleasure to be a part of this talk ,thank you again.

    Video Link 

  • A Talk With Roberto Camera , CEO – Nearchimica

    A Talk With Roberto Camera , CEO – Nearchimica

    Nearchimica is a well known chemical company based out of Italy.  Continuing our series of talks during the current crisis with some of the important people in the global denim supply chain , Sandeep Agarwal spoke to the CEO of the company – Robert Camera. He shared his views on how he analyses the current crisis and what resolution he sees for it. We share his views in an informal chat format below. 

    Sandeep
    Hi Roberto, How are you ? How’s Italy doing ?

    Roberto
    Hello, I am fine. How are you  ?
    The situation here has been safe for us in this period. We never stopped totally because we are working and not only clearly in the fashion but also in Functional Textile . So a small unit indeed has been working in laboratory and production for PPE, for medical fabric. Most of us is working from home. The situation has effected the region but now it is slightly improving. From 18th of May , more activities will get start but it will be step by step . First we will start the factory and then the restaurants and pubs might start again. The big problem will not only be the production but transportation. They are starting submission for the transport with the big series .

    Sandeep
    What is the major impact you feel from the point of view of industry that this crisis has brought ?

    Roberto
    My idea is that in textiles, the crisis was coming even before the Coronavirus as well because in fast fashion there were problems in over production. So in our opinion the situation could not manage, the coronavirus has given a big shot to this situation of course now we are going to all stop it. Now two months more or less than any country everybody started , we are going to restart now. What we feel about things is totally different. So in this time, virus has effected the basic needs. The basic needs is to ensure that the environment, your people, your family is safe. Everything will be affected and we are giving an opportunity to everyone to re-discuss the situation and the process. It is a change and all these events are opening the doors to different concepts, are creating new links and we must be able to follow these new links.

    Sandeep
    What are the new links you feel?

    Roberto
    The new links will be something which will give new values to the problems you are currently facing. So, today we are changing the way we buy things because you cannot go out of the home but you can buy on e-commerce. On e-commerce, you can buy the essential items which you need in this crisis times. So today , we are having different approach for fabrics and garments. So today we have the problem to send these fabrics in the shop to be safe when you test them so there is quite a requirement something that is so cheap., not so complicated to use but that is also something that can be worn by the people safely and something that is a protection. So we think that more and more players are looking for solutions to this problem.

    Sandeep
    So, any solutions you see currently there or people in the market are still working on it?

    Roberto
    The situation is like a work in progress because it is not easy to adapt different production stream from one day to another. I am speaking about textile in general , the whole industry needs to work not only on the chemistry, not only for producers but to those who are thinking a new way of life. All the garment industry can be involved in these kind of projects. They should come out with solutions to make people connect more easily and safely. Another important factor will be sustainability. I think sustainability will be accelerated by the situation because we see that we need to reduce the waste, to process simpler and ecological and sanitized process that make garment clean. The garment which is not only clean when it goes out of the factory but is clean during transportation also and is not effected by bacteria and other things. So, when you go into shops , you wear it and touch it , it should be safe and protected. So we should produce less because we can’t make garments which are wasted and degrading the earth. We should produce garment which is sold with better values and I think people will look for this kind of finishing.

    Sandeep
    So, you are talking about protection and safety and health of people. From fibers to chemicals to finishing  , which segment in the production process needs to put more efforts or which segment is more useful in this situation?

    Roberto
    Yes , you are correct. It can be done on the fabric, on the garment, it depends on the situation how it is managed. It could be applied to millions of garments that are already produced. So, it is something we can adapt to circumstances. We need to collect more information and everything else needs to be planned because the problem is quite serious. I come to the protection like gloves we wear, we use it in time of emergency but this can be a big pollutant for our future. So we need to think is something that can be for washing that automatically is not a waste otherwise you will see ocean full of gloves and masks and we would have created another disaster. So , as we are in starting , we need to start with correct step. We cannot roll again to make the same mistake as the past. This is a stopping rule, now we are forced to stop. We can think of the engineering and process as to how to make it better. We are already dealing with the chemicals and we are against the waste. So the technological developments for saving the environment will be helpful for this because it will give good economical results as we don’t have waste and also good environment results as waste is not going into water. If this is too much , it can damage the environment. So, machine builders, chemists, apparel people , designers. If we work together , we can realize something helpful for the business, and also for the people and environment.

    Sandeep
    Do you think people like machine manufacturers, designers etc. are all coming together like this?

    Roberto
    Something is moving , as it is the starting , I can’t tell you if this will help the business like that. But for sure when the market is asking something, people who do satisfy the requirement of market first normally are in a better position . This will start again with just producing what you need. The first thing to take into account is to take from the environment just what you need and not more and this is for food, textiles, energy and everything. So , we have to live our life with only necessary things avoiding travel etc. There were points in the past where we were doing unnecessary things. So , we should use digital technology more just as we are using now. We can use this technology to make garment presentations without the need of travelling the world and we can use digital platforms to share the garment details. So at the end after this huge disaster, if we learn the lesson , we can do better and more interesting things for everybody, also for the economy because there is no sense in producing large no. of garments without profit. It is better to produce less with reasonable profit for everybody. We need laboratories to support the customers who are making these kind of projects.

    Sandeep
    In terms of supply chain, we have seen the manufacturing destinations like Bangladesh , Vietnam, China, Pakistan, India etc. So which of these places do you see has been more effected and which will be recovering the fastest based on the strengths they have?

    Roberto
    Probably , the countries which recover faster according to the situations will be the ones which are not directly connected to the main market. Now , Europe is going more or less out of the lockdown. So, those countries that supply to Europe and European brands probably will start first. I must say that about brands that still are buying garments , we must keep these things going on. So it will start from Europe and then United States which may enter later . So I don’t think it all will start very quickly . June will probably be the month when things will start . This is why I say that this is the time to prepare ourselves. In this time, I have not been lockdown myself as everyday I try to understand how to adapt the situation , how to sanitize the garments in the shop because the first question that everybody is asking is how can we clean the garments first before trying. So, we are thinking of cabins where you can put some spray and things like that to clean and sanitize because this is important. In our company also , we are dividing the people to keep the volume but to maintain distance. In Germany also , they are not fully lockdown and are moving on working and that what we are also trying to do.

    Sandeep
    Coming to consumers, as you already said that they will want to have the safety first, they need to be assured of their health and safety when they are going out for shopping. So, as consumers , what other changes you see in the consumer preferences coming up in next few months? Health concern is the biggest concern but apart from health concern?

    Robert
    There are two issues , first we have to face also the economic crisis but in the same time there is also another situation when people will be out of this , they will want to go out and shop again . SO maybe there will be a bit of compensation. I think that being a crisis period , the first demand will be of what is necessary . So, I think schools also have to be safe on priority for kids.   So , I think the primary need will be the first and denim work is very unique, its for pleasure , for work , for business, for free time . It is a strong garment which you can wear and wash easily. I really think we can have an opportunity in this difficult period. I don’t mean it is easy , don’t misunderstand me but denim can go back to the origin and can be a garment for everybody.

    Sandeep
    I was reading an article today regarding 1918 Spanish flu and how the fashion changed after that. People did not wash the garments too much during the flu , that was occasional washes. After the flu, the washing of garments increased tremendously. So that is probably something which we would see after this crisis that people who were not washing the garments much before for multiple cycles will probably wash them more after the crisis and that will change.

    Roberto
    I tell you honestly , if you consider the denim industry like is , we would want to sanitize the fabric but completely running it will be difficult. There was no more value concept of this fabric . So , for too much time we have been compromising the cost of the garment but not looking at the value of the garment. We need to come back to the restoration of the denim image and this is also true for the garment industry because there are plenty of garments but not really the garment what you actually need and at this moment the basic needs will be the dominating factor. Then after some time , we will see there are other situations where also Faschion will be again important whatever can happen ; this virus has been a shock to understand that things can happen. Protection on garments is like an insurance policy , sometimes you pay the premium for nothing but the moment that something bad happens, insurance can definitely make the difference. and for many years we have destroyed this concept. So , I think it is very important to learn the lesson.

    Sandeep
    Do you think the retailers will learn from this because after coming from these crisis a lot of people will have less money , So , they will be looking for cheaper garments and then these retailers will again become active who are looking to create those cheap garments?  So again we might get caught in the same cycle again.

    Roberto
    Yes and no. So , there will be always pressure from big brands for reducing price but I tell you that the cost for these treatments are not much expensive than producing something else. It is something that can be measured also on mass production. There is not really economical issue . Really that is not doing something better and on the contrary I think that we can live in more safe and more sustainable way also. If you can see the amount of money that everybody is spending on the unsold garments and you just take half and spend it on a better type of garment , you still save a lot.

    Sandeep
    Any other key changes that you see in the character of denim fabrics or apparel sector happening as such apart from what you have mentioned?

    Roberto
    If we try to give more value to the garment, it would be more important in the apparel sector. It depends on the opportunity of change. If you refuse this opportunity , this change will normally ruin you. So , we must see the situation and find out ways how we can improve it and must realize our mistakes. It is a shock to everybody and we are trying to restore everything . We are beginning to understand what to do and what not to do but keeping in mind the emergency , we need to think more in a sustainable way even with the protection and PPE.

    Sandeep
    Any other positives you see from the current situation coming out ?

    Roberto 
    We are trying to think for long term , helping the people to recover and keep alive their activities like those who live in a small village. As you can’t go out to malls as they are crowded and not safe so , the services like door to door and nearby services will become more and more useful because the big distribution was killing the subject. So this is why we have also to re-think how we are doing the things. Not so much on the product side because the production side has been crucial and more sustainable. In the market, probably a lot of things need to be think in a new way.

    Sandeep
    We can see that in India also, only small shops are open right now and all the bigger ones are closed. So , as consumers, if after the crisis, we continue to support these shops , then only they can be benefited.

    Roberto
    I think this situation as we define it in our way of going, people will avoid the big crowd, or barbers etc. For sure, we will be far from crowd. We would like to be sure that what we are doing is safe. So our colleagues are intend to help people who are in need. People in the company comes from travelling through metros and trains, so they carry overalls and get them cleaned. But the good thing is we are having meetings with our customers and high ranking people as well. We have been in talks with our competitors also to discuss the ideas of coping. They are also using ozone to sanitize. So, there has been a very big contribution of ideas and I would say this is a good thing in this time. We are sharing ideas in a fine way and collaboration amongst the companies gives us better way to find the solution.

    Sandeep
    Collaboration is very important activity for the future, that’s correct !

    Roberto
    You need to work in a team because you need knowledge and you cannot have full and specific knowledge in every field . Eg we need more twisted yarn and we have been sharing these ideas in all our supply chain and also among the colleagues to understand how much it is better and what steps should be taken. Customers also must realize that they should not waste the products and use them till usable. It is a big stress as we are in a very bad situation but it is a melting pot.

    Sandeep
    And the new things will come out.

    Roberto
    Hopefully. I also want to thank you for giving us this live talk so that we can share our thoughts with everybody through this platform. It helps us to introduce new arguments and tell them to different people.

    Sandeep
    Yes, the idea is basically to share our ideas. All of us are sitting at home and thinking it is the time to share our ideas and it also gives a comfort with(to) each other.

    Roberto
    It is important to keep things running and I hope brands keep running because a stop would be really the worst thing. Slowly but we must keep things moving and update them time to time with all the ideas and products according to the new situation. But it is important that the brands would play the game in a fair way.

    Sandeep
    Yes absolutely. So before I ask you the last question , I just want to tell everybody who are watching , if you have any questions , please put up right now as we may take some .You already spoken about collaboration and cooperation with each other, any other recommendation you want to convey to the industry in these difficult times?

    Roberto
    Everywhere, this situation is leaving in personal way or company way. So what we say is to keep things going on and to look forward. Not to stop at this moment because for sure there will be a new start from this crisis and we should think positive. We are crossing that moment and we will go out. The more we are connected and the more we try to do things in a better way, the better it would be. These kinds of talks, discussions etc. to understand each other views is very important because it is important for understanding and planning. We can take this opportunity of this gap to make an understanding of this step to make the next step.

    Sandeep
    Actually this is the big opportunity for creative thinking. We don’t get this kind of time to spend so much time on thinking.

    Roberto
    Yes, I agree with you. This is the time for thinking. With positive thinking, what we can do, how we can start and what is also do to avoid mistakes. But , we need to move out for sure.

    Sandeep
    One of the question that come up here in our Instagram is What is the better way to treat? Is it better to treat garment or fabric? As we are thinking of new ways of treatment in apparel so what is better to treat on fabric or garment?

    Roberto
    I would say again both. If we are speaking of denim, we can make this treatment for those garments which are sold like raw denim and fabric, otherwise is better to finish like final finishing. Also, it depends on the final article, If I am selling raw, so after drastic washing I can take it to treated fabric which is more easy and cheaper otherwise I can do it on garment. But I am also thinking not to only to the pants and shirts but for other apparel also for sure we need to be sanitized every time. So, most of the treatment in these laundry can be suitable for this application. So, when we think to grow out of  this situation , we want a larger horizon. For ready made bed linen, for instance, , you can’t treat the fabric, but you can treat them during laundry. Also it will be with the same machines, you can use spray process in closed equipment, it will be by fog application. You can use machine that you know very well. There is plenty of option. If you want something very cheap and can go in motion.

    Sandeep
    Do you see any change in the natural fibers vs. artificial fibers being usage post COVID?

    Roberto
    In face masks the fabric used is polyester and in apparel cotton and cotton fibers are used naturally . The target is to make something which is washable minimum 10 times and still performing in a correct way. This is what we want to realize. We are thinking of some uniforms and others  , so it is not only something you wear for fashion , these are done for other activities also. This garment can be treated in different ways. And when the cycle is repeated you need to replace the garment and that you cannot do on your own , you need to do it in the industry. What we want to avoid is to reduce the number of wastage because otherwise the massive disposal will create pollution and we will create another big issue.

    Sandeep
    So recycling becomes more important in terms of the new items we have started to use now.

    Roberto
    Yes, Ferrari is making valves for breathing equipment. So, if one company is transforming the production from machines to breathing equipment, then apparel industry should also try to transform into other useful things.

    Sandeep
    Finally , I would like to thank you for a wonderful discussion and on the points you have enlightened us. All the viewers have also enjoyed it and they have been commenting along with. We have learned from you and thankyou again for joining the show.

    Roberto
    I thankyou for this opportunity. Let us keep in touch. Please feel free to contact us if you are in any need. Goodbye to all the people who have joined this discussion. Keep safe and we are always available.

     

    Video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BDpH5T8bPU[embedd]

  • Denim Post Covid – Views Of Some Of Guests From Live Talks- Part II

    Denim Post Covid – Views Of Some Of Guests From Live Talks- Part II

    During the #Covidtimes Live talks at our Instagram , the guests shared some valuable insights into the current situation and its effects . We share herewith , the second part of our summarized comments , from some of the guests . The first part was already published some time back and you can read it here

    Murtaza Ahmed

    There has been a lot of press about retail partners not standing up to their obligations but I think most retail partners have been very supportive, very understanding also of the situation and most of them have been very ethical. We should give some credit over there as well because there has been a lot of negative press about brands even though most of them have tried their best in this very difficult situation….

    …I think initially a lot of brands and a lot of business leaders panicked and of course that’s fine. That’s the whole idea of crisis management that you manage the crisis every day as it comes. Initial reactions were tough but then sanity prevailed and we all worked it out.

    Aamir Akhtar

    Sustainability is something that has gained attraction over so many years because it is something which has been sort of driven by the consumers. consumers are sort of wanting sustainability, they want to move towards a good green  planet and that’s why it is a need which is being translated to the brands who in turn  are pushing the supply chain. 

    ….And if you really see this whole push  on sustainability has done good work. For example, this whole thing about zero liquid discharge of hazardous chemicals and the denim industry used to have this whole thing about sandblasting which was really bad for health and then it was this whole movement of public opinion against and finally sandblasting was banned. Similarly this whole conversation against  using PP spray is getting strong . So sustainability is something which is a big need for consumers and that’s why it will continue to be important . We have seen there are some people who really push the pedal on that. There are  some people who have been absolutely not compromising on that and so I think it’s a part of the DNA of organizations . 

    Complete Article | Video

    Omer Ahmed

    Consumers will be more conscious about the product and how it’s made .  I don’t think they will be differentiating between one polyester fiber or the other, again I’m just using that as an example, no offense to the polyester suppliers . But they do not differentiate because this again there’s so much complexity in the business of sustainability that some of them don’t understand. So I don’t think the consumer will understand the difference. What they will understand are absolutes when it comes to sustainability. 

    ….Other than that,  region to region,  I’m not sure how consumer behavior will change, depends on how much disposable income different consumers have in different areas in the world….

    ….So we don’t know much about that but what we do know is that if you at least look at the younger generations . Gen Z and Gen Alpha even pre-pandemic were more inclined towards experiences than products – it’s a very good time for brands and retailers to start re-thinking the consumer experience. For example, Amazon did their Go stores, you will see more eCommerce companies add brick-and-mortar and you will see them do it right …

    Complete Article | Video

    Andrea Venier

    We’ll probably have 40-50% reduction in consumption or production of denim in future. I can not predict the exact reduction but I have discussed it with my father also, so I guess there will be a 40-50% drop in consumption/production in near future, not in the long term but in the coming months. 

    Many companies may not be able to continue its business and personally I believe that until winter 2021, the situation will be complex in Italy and in the entire Europe. Imagine that the stories which are closed now and maybe they will open in middle of may or june but practically for them summer season would be gone at that time.

    The summer collection of 2020 is in the stores now which they will repurpose in next summer, so there will be a contraction in the production next year also for sure. As a consequence of course, the chemical and dyes production also suffer as far as the production and consumption are concerned.

    So I think we have to rethink our business model in the coming months. It would be a big challenge for all of us and to remain in the market , a lot of money needs to be invested in new technology and innovation. I think these are the only ways to address the challenge and I think by 2022 we would have new opportunities, and these 18 months would be really challenging.

    Complete Talk | Video

    Ebru Debaag

    A lot of development has already been happening in the denim industry through technology, technological advancements and we have seen, I was one of the first ones to introduce the idea of functional technological denim fabrics into the industry. I had that great hook for that and this we’re talking like 10-15 years ago and in the meantime not so much really happened in that category because there’s a certain limitation as to how the fabrics are manufactured, designed for purpose and then we have seen many fiber ,new fiber, raw material integration into the industry….

    ..Again limited but they did and you know again good ideas like blood circulation, face changing materials, Coolmax , a lot of ideas. I think we need to look at pollution reactive area right now. So that’s an area which is really growing and I think fashion could play a big role there ….

    That’s one area but again it’s really early stages as to where the product will evolve but definitely speaking of denim, we have to bring back its value, its authenticity but again as a system not as a product but as a system. And of course we have to look at the digital product as well, how we can devise the manufacturing.

    Complete Interview | Video

    Richard Tobin

    …I think that after every rain shower the Sun will show and today the Sun will set but it will surely rise tomorrow and that this pause is one that we usually don’t ever have an opportunity for . So it’s really a chance of a lifetime to sit with yourself – to ask yourself who and what you are and what your intentionality will be and once you reassess and take that long look again if we’re in the corner… 

    ..I think it’s human nature to come out fighting and I think this is a fight – so I choose to stand and fight and I believe that there’s a brighter future ahead. I believe this is a great opportunity for starting new brands and breathing life into older brands and certainly opportunity for younger workers to step up and take leadership roles .And maintain an open mind and continue to evolve ourselves and learn . I would say that innovation and technology will lead the way as it has in other business sectors and I think for the context you got to be accountable and we want our legacy to be one of benevolence …

    Complete Article | Video

    Richard Atkins

    ..Currently, the process is slow as I do it digitally, I’m talking to them on every process. I need to see photographs of each stage which takes time and a lot of patience as well some of the guys get so mad with me because I want to see high- resolution photographs just to see if there are highs or lows are different or is it correct…

    ..I’m basically watching individual sign-offs that create the product. We also need to handle sign off in Hong Kong for the majority of our stuff for the German market. German shops are closed, and all the teams in Germany are working from home. I have to be kind of babysitting the whole process and work with our technical team. We have to evaluate and process for each garment to go forward into production. We kind of need to believe in our team that it’ll be okay in the future because we’re not even sure if it’s accepted once it all starts up…

    ..We’re trying to keep it as a high standard as possible; nothing is missed before we go forward on a style. Our customers are still asking for the products, and they are not asking to hold back or stop it. So we still have our supply chain, we have actually quite a lot of okay smaller orders going forward..

    ..We don’t just do denim here; we also do knit. We’ve actually been able to handle slowing down cut dates or reducing units that are already in work. We still need to have a reduction or percentage overall. If it’s late though into the market for knits they cancel but knit categories were down 30-35 % of the production, which is so sad but we can’t stop it either…

    Complete Article | Video

    Anatt Flinker

    The definition of sustainability is evolving, and first, when you’re talking about sustainability it meant bringing good raw materials, less use of chemicals but now it would be important to consider three important things when we talk about sustainability i.e, Economic, Social and Environmental. So we have to talk about Economic, environmental and social things about sustainability when this would be happening we’re going to start seeing like some sustainable business as a business that works for the betterment of employees, that’s the business would be considered as sustainable which pay to their employees a good salary, so it’s all interconnected. 

    Complete Article | Video

    Future of Denim Sourcing is here

  • COVID Times – A Talk with Albert Tjandra

    COVID Times – A Talk with Albert Tjandra

    Continuing our series of #Covidtimes – How are you coping, Sandeep Agarwal speaks to Albert Tjandra – Director of Grandtex Indonesia about the current crisis to get an Indonesian perspective and how Grandtex as a denim mill is evolving itself during these tough times. Albert shares his candid views on all questions during the Instagram live talk

    Sandeep
    Hi Albert, How are you? How’s Indonesia is doing?

    Albert
    Hi Sandeep, How are you? We are good so far, trying our best to stay healthy and doing what is so literally called “homework” for now.

    Technically we are late/short on disclosing the fact and details at the beginning, where people all over are wondering if this 4th largest populations country really not least affected by the virus.
    We have started applying the Big Scale of Social/Physical Distancing Policy, where numerous rules set to bound the mobilization without saying not allowed. Certain numbers and distance set for public transport mode. 

    Keeping pushing people to stay home with new law penalties and enforcement. Limit the official works/ office in related only for supply chain and health assessment ,only F&B retails, small grocery store/market, basic needs shop, drugstore, bank and energy, electrical, communication, hospital and medicare allowed to be operated in certain hours. The rest are closed.

    Sandeep
    How Indonesian Industry is responding to the crisis?

    Albert
    The pandemic shuttered factories in late March. Companies in all regions of Indonesian facing huge layoffs,  labor termination, and closing. The travel industry is the most affected by the current. Retailers are on the same path followed. 

    We do have 2 different markets for Indonesian textile and garments. Both are contributing to the biggest percentage of Gross Domestic Product for the Indonesian Industry. Its a big population and big market indeed for Indonesian, the fact that we do have one major season, which is Eid in the next 40days.

    Locals are supposed to start distributing the goods to retail for new clothes. Garments are on final seasons to complete the productions and begin with logistics.

    Then this issue comes up so suddenly and heavily spread out.  Stores closed, the factory closed, delay payment and soured cash flow. People will not be spending on clothes, which usually a major category for locals during the festival.

    They are going home to the village, being unemployed, where its kind disrupting the government plan of encouraging social distancing since the beginning. 

    Export has suffered significant numbers of cancellations and postponements of orders. Indonesia is currently exporting 14 Billion USD to world textile and garment, US is major 5B$,  Japan 2B$ and EU 1,5B with the rest of the regions. The impact on current crisis is massive. We are seeing lots of factories closed. Goods abandoned unshipped and not knowing payments will be honored. 

    The Government is working on all measures that will be incorporated as a stimulus package for almost US$ 1Billion , aimed at easing rules for export -imports as supply chains continue to be disrupted by the virus spread. They are also working to relax the income tax and import duty to boost production. But this is truly beyond the safety net. The uncertainty about the duration of the crisis weighs heavily on the industry.

    Sandeep
    How are you coping personally and professionally?

    Albert
    I think as many people globally ,I share the same experience to continue contributing to the industry by working from home. That should be not be an issue for most of the Indonesian business level, The system and digital world really put us through this tough situation with tremendous help and effort. 

    Our office team located in the central city of Jakarta had been doing social distancing as early protocol months ago and stayed domestically home for the last 10-14 days for now. The main goal for everyone here today is to stay healthy. Holding on digital technology to have the meeting virtually, we were able to engage everyone simultaneously and try to be even more efficient.

    While some part of us from the production unit at the factory is still running, with very tight scrutiny following government protocol , we do have a thousand workers in the facility who currently put on hold partially for the day in and day home policy to maintain the social distancing.

    Sandeep
    How is your company / industry operation affected and how you are reinventing yourself?

    Albert
    Coming in the month of April, there are no other mills (denim) running production in our region . Safety and health will always be a priority, so by the next 2weeks, perhaps we will declare shut down, as an extension of the Muslim holiday, which will be very long indeed. 

    Coronavirus lockdowns aren’t the only thing affecting our industry’s ability to pay our workers. Most of us will say the main problem is unreasonable demands from big clients. We’ve also experienced demands for cancellations for goods that are ready or are work in progress, or discounts for outstanding payments and for goods in transit. 

    They are also asking for 30 to 120-day extensions on previously agreed payment terms. Some brands are showing a true sense of partnership and a high level of ethics in trying to ensure at least enough cash flow to pay workers.

    Sandeep
    Any CSR initiatives during the current times in relation to coronavirus by your company?

    Albert
    Yes. Once the operations taking a slow pace, what we can assure to our nearby environment, by distributing more supplies and water needed for the villages around the facility. We are employing more unemployed workers to maximize our operations.

    We are producing fabric masks optimizing our capacity. We are not doing this because there is a demand, but because it’s the right thing to do.

    Sandeep
    How do you think the fashion world is going to change after things come under control? 

    Albert
    Well, I guess it will definitely come from Retail and Consumer point of view, who will drive back the whole industry. 

    They had waited too long at home and some are eager to put all effort and excitement to go on the shopping floor again especially for the medium to long-run prospect. We do have a certain society here from medium core buying power, who just simply dying to go browse over fashions and step in retail stores once this pandemic issues over.
     
    But others may change their way of shopping.  By all means, logistics and distribution will definitely change. The supplier needs to be closer to the consumer in this way. All kind leading to near sourcing will imply sooner or later.

    People who had been in digitalization will keep remain doing so, and others will start to follow, I had even seen these in our local market which Indonesia is just had few digital market-place to go e-comm for textile and apparels, but their rating and sale numbers are spiking up during this situation. 

    The Millenials and Z Gen are being the most active visitor for these. And yes, we all know they are roller spender but somehow they are less dropping attention to identify what the brands are. These are the generation that doesn’t care about names and brand tags. 

    These are the direct buyers for the direct user, they may have brand loyalty but always open for new evolution immediately. 
    In terms of quantity may also be simply changed, they will not aim for more, instead, they will be very particular on what they want to buy, They will buy in better quality and making better choices.

    So yes, definitely we will see a lot of changes in the fashion world as soon as all these are over and lifted. We just do hope every player in the chain industry, from manufacturer to retailer will have and provide the right products that consumer wants.

    Sandeep
    Do you see possibilities of creating Personal Protection Denim (PPD)?

    Albert
    At the current stage, more units are pivoting their production to manufacture such products as medical masks and gowns, including Grandtex – this also leads the reason why we still allowed to operate during the time. 

    However, I think we have to be reasonable and responsible for what we produce. There will be a limitation on cotton woven to get into the medical parameter which has a concern with human healthiness and safety. 
    On some possibility stage, comes along with consumer demand changes, denim will be provided as a safety protection product somehow. 

    We had produced highly constructed denim fabrics with special anti-burn finished and water repellent applications for some Mining/Tobacco company uniforms. We are now applying antivirus/anti-bacteria with water repellent finish on our woven denim tops range for blue medical uniform 1st layer before their actual spunbond protection unit. These are more into general performance fabrics. 

    But when it comes to denim as daily fit casual wear with protection applications, I think these will take some part of consumer mindset consideration in coming. 

    Sandeep
    Do you see Denim becoming more technical?

    Albert
    Indeed it will. Like we discussed earlier, people are eager to know what’s inside the materials. Before they want to know what’s inside the garment, now whats inside the materials, what kind of cotton, how friendly the dyestuff and washed chemicals are that we use. 

    When it comes to performance instead of appearance, details on the property will be transparently projected. Then suddenly buying denims not only for the look and fit but also how it constructed will be more appreciated. That’s the shifting of premium denim. 

    Sandeep
    Do you expect Consumer behavior changes post Covid to be different in different regions?

    Albert
    The consumer will evolve with the situation differently. Some regions will have earlier store opening will lead consumer closer to the store floor, while others may have enjoyed exploring the digital platform to source products . Again subject to different regions’ situations indeed.

    For sure, Slow fashion will play major role impressions, More transparent and committed to sustainable production will be needed. Ready where people can find out the impact of the brands they want to buy just as easily as they can see the price or size

    Sandeep
    Two key changes in the basic character of denim as an apparel product Post Corona.

    Albert
    Well, denim not again will be as structured as simple as it was. Two changes will be:

    1. Denim as basic casual wear means People will wear basic denim for better life performance simple jeans.
    2. Denim as basic casual fabric means, whatever current interest simplicity that reflects the originality of denim fabric plus includes green processed within. 

    Sandeep
    How do you think consumer will evolve in his preferences after going through this crisis

    Albert
    One thing for sure, consumers becoming more alert on the information, craving for the content and property over physical appearance. They will start looking at what’s inside. What kind of materials the manufacture use. What will be the hygienic performance that the brand pushes for after these issues happened globally?

    Some may still keep brand loyalty but mostly they will be more realistic in making a purchase. There will be more on anti-bacteria/ anti-virus/ less odor breathable denim jeans compare to fashion nice-looking novelties fit. 

    We had been enjoying the privilege of having premium denim for better margin, for just appearance and feel.  Now they will ask what premium can give them on better and healthier life enhancement?

    Sandeep
    Sustainability – Your thoughts considering the existing situation? 

    Albert
    The definition of sustainable fashion has changed over the years, and yet global fashion still searches platform aims to bring some clarity. Sustainable fashion defines as protecting the future of our planet and the people through design, how we create and wear our clothes, by carefully managing resource use to reduce waste and climate impacts, protecting the welfare of the human being, and the assurance of the safety and fair treatment of workers all the way down the supply chain.

    People start talking in advance on Biodegradable jeans, which are a stretch of jeans made from renewable resources and free from plastics and micro-plastics. This is really sustainable product-driven.

    Sandeep
    and how it will change?

    Albert
    Denim remains one of the most-wanted sustainable products. In a world where resources are diminishing and landfills are overflowing with discarded garments, it’s our duty to look for renewable resources 
    So yes Sustainability will go on as it remain as the soul of the apparel industry. But will the Recycle and Reuse garments gain more consciousness after the global pandemic? Are people start asking questions on the should we still pursue on pre-owned” and “secondhand fashion, that will need further clarification. 

    Sandeep
    What do you think are the main positives from the current situation

    Albert
    Perhaps when no one can control the virus or even the economic fallout but we can control how we react to the crisis. I am very positive about our prospects for the future—surfing through the crisis in the short-to-medium term and in the long-term recovery. I believe if we are flexible and efficient enough, we will be well-positioned, to get through these difficulties.

    We are looking for ways to drive efficiency and speed to market and reduce waste while improving the company’s operations through and beyond the pandemic. I had seen a lot of chances to reshape and get slim light for the company, people will look at products in more different aspects, asking the different ways of sourcing.

    Thus the crisis gives us an opportunity to not just renew the business, but to reset it for the future. Garment manufacturing has been diversifying away from China for around ten years due to China’s high costs. We will just have to play out our strengths, go as efficiently as we can. 

    Sandeep
    Thanks, Albert. Pleasure talking to you and see you soon. Stay Safe and Please take care.

    Albert
    Thank you so much for the time Sandeep, as hoping we will keep in touch and share what’s happening in the industry,  Wish you all the best and stay safe.

    Note: We will be continuing these series of daily talks – with normal timings being 10.30 am NY time / 3.30 pm UK time and 8.00 pm India time at our Instagram handle. Do follow to be notified.

    Video link of the talk


  • COVID TIMES -A Talk With Michelle Branch

    COVID TIMES -A Talk With Michelle Branch

    Michelle Branch from Markt &Twigs is a well known denim consultant from US . Sandeep Agarwal spoke to her recently to find out her views on the prevailing crisis and its impact on her work as well as the fashion and denim industry. She shares her candid views on the situation and her analysis of the same.

    Sandeep
    Hello Michelle, How are you? I welcome to you and first of all I hope that everyone in your family and friends ,everybody’s fine , healthy and safe.

    Michelle
    We have had a couple of family members who caught the virus.They are recovering though, they are on the opposite side of it now and I have some family members who are medical professionals so we pray for them every day but so far so good everybody is alive and on the mend if not already healthy.

    Sandeep
    I really hope so and pray for everybody. How situation in New York ? How’s everybody is really coping with the current situation?

    Michelle
    It clearly is crazy for everybody. It’s unprecedented and I think initially it was a shock and now people are kind of settling into their social distancing routines because honestly this is the only way that we can eradicate it .So, yeah here in New York and New Jersey have been hit pretty hard. My small town of Jersey City which is right outside of Manhattan even though it’s in another state, I just read somewhere that we have more cases thancases in 23 states. Not combined but more than 23 individual states.

    Sandeep
    This really clearly is a very unprecedented situation and and it calls for unprecedented responses from all of us . As denim consultant and as a person who is interacting with so many players in the supply chain from the retailer’s to the mills , what is your professional response to this?

    Michelle
    First of all, everything is shut down right now so personally as a creative person I try and make sure I do something creative every single day – A for my own Sanity and B to be prepared for when this situation ends which it will. I think the important thing to  look at for all of us particularly in the denim community where we’re very tight and we’re very huggy and touchy with the product, It is something that there are times when I personally find it easier to make presentations when I have garments in my hands. It’s like a security blanket and I think those things are going to change. I mean even the lexicon is gonna change .You know – shake on it – to do a deal, that’s not gonna happen anymore ! . Those words will probably go away as and we move towards a digital way of communicating and is sad as it is for me because connection is the thing that I love most aside from the actual product . Connection is the thing I love the most about our industry .We’re gonna have to find other ways to connect and it’s gonna be interesting but the good part about this to me is that it came at a time where all of us recognized that we had a problem and it’s giving us an opportunity to hit the reset button that we would have never been able to do in such a quick period  of time. Slowly we were moving there but now I think this is forcing everyone.There’s a saying that the universe wants you to know something and they whisper in your ear .If you don’t listen , it’ll tap you on your shoulders and if you don’t listen to that it’ll hit you in the head and that’s what’s happened to us. So, I think it’s really an opportunity for all of us to look at how we do things. We don’t need to travel nearly as much as we do but it’s become part of our way of doing business that will clearly change and there’ll be and are already technological ways to develop the product without actually having to touch it all the time .So, those are ways I think that it’s gonna change and that’s good for us.

    Sandeep
    Yeah, I think it’s good for us and we need to really push the Reset button. What do you think will become of sustainability ? Because we already been moving in that direction. Will the definition of Sustainability change in some way ? Because we have been talking about various definitions of Sustainablility which are confusing. So post CORONA , is our definition of sustainability going to change?

    Michelle 
    Of course it will change. It will be enhanced,it’ll be bigger because the things that this virus will force us to do – for example less traveling – you know that uses less resources already. I think that this is going to kickstart us into having to behave sustainably whether we want to or not. It’s just the way it’s going to be but , for example , I just read somewhere where – if anybody  is listening from Jeanologia hey you guys thumbs up – they developed the G2 to figure out ways of bleaching the product more sustainably. But now because of this virus that has evolved into a way to sanitize medical equipment. So I feel like the things that we’ve already been doing will just be ramped up a little bit and maybe we have to look at things from all different angles. Everybody that I know will still pursue creating products more responsibly.We also need to create less of them I think.

    Sandeep
    We are talking about reduced quantities, maybe a huge reduction.

    Michelle
    Yeah, it’s gonna be painful and for sure but it’s the right thing to do. I think that we have to kind of look at it that way -for example – we have models , seasonal models that we’ve used for decades but now we have the ability to speak directly to the consumer and get information directly from the consumer. So maybe instead of a 20 piece collection ,a denim collection, fabric collection for example – I’m talking about  a denim collection – we know that the consumer insights come from Instagram or from whatever comes out of this that they like these five things the most. So we focus on those five things we don’t need to do the other 15 because the five things and things that are going to sell. So much of these products get made and they get marked down , sold off end up in landfills. Therefore, we have to create less.

    Sandeep
    So we are cutting the seasons and we are cutting the number of products, the collections that we are making and we are saying we should be sure that we are doing it in a much greater speed then we were doing before.We were probably doing it before also but now we need to speed it up much faster and probably seasons are going to become kind of redundant in terms of the impact the way people used to prepare for two or more seasons and all of what we have done in the past well.

    Michelle
    I think for the most part yes there will still be some seasonal things like sleeveless tops and five ounce jeans those kinds of things.They will still remain but they they’ll be one or two . They won’t be an entire collection and I think that’s the main point .

    Sandeep
    So if you would try to quantify for the moment – let’s say for currently we are making 70 to 80% products as per  seasons. Probably we might come down to 20-30%,  20% or something like that?

    Michelle
    It would definitely be less.I don’t know the exact percentage and I don’t think that there’ll be a cut-off. I think it’ll be something that quickly and gradually will happen.

    Sandeep
    One more thing which comes to my mind is that this disease is not really going away so soon. Even if you are coming out of it, after two months we are back to work ,still this is going to remain until the time we have a really effective vaccine against it. When everyone is vaccinated and safe but that rule might take let’s say one and a half to two years. So till that time we need personal protective apparel . What do you think about this so we are actually probably creating new fashion category?

    Michelle
    I think maybe for the short term . I think a couple of things here and there are some fashionable ones like there was a company in China which had each of their employees create their own individual ones and they had like their faces but with a smile because when you wear a mask you can’t see the smiles and so everybody digitally printed their smile on top of the mask and it’s cute and it’s fun . For sure will need it for the short term but I think what is happening or what will happen probably is that this is a wake up call to make us aware that a pandemic is possible.I don’t know that we will wear masks forever I think out of necessity it’s going to become a category for the short term. I don’t know that it will stick around forever in as much as we wear it every day but we will be able to flip back into it . Like people will find ways of becoming flexible in case it happens again to flip back into it just like the G2 machines .That machine will go back to bleaching denim and then if this happens again – God forbid – we know that it’s able to be switched quickly to sanitize equipment . So I think it’ll be more about flexibility. I don’t imagine jeans factories converting  to making masks for the long haul – I just I hope that doesn’t have to happen.

    Sandeep
    But you know if you see countries like Japan, 10 years back they had this problem of SARS and that you see Masks have become a reality in their life.

    Michelle
    Yes, not every body wears that but yes you see it there for sure.

    Sandeep
    I think twenty percent people are wearing them once out there .So they have learned how the people in this part of the world uses masks.What I see is on the internet right now that even expensive masks are coming up even I saw yesterday $60 mask which was quite interesting to see. So that is probably something which might happen – this crisis may trigger a new fashion accessory.

    Michelle
    I think for sure in the short term and short term meaning a couple of years like you said until there is a vaccine that they know for sure will work.

    Sandeep
    It might also be an oxygen supply to the supply right now . Now the second thing is what do you feel about the category of home wear? Because many people are now working from home and it may also become a sort of regular practice for many people over the next few months or worse -years. Does that also pick the category of new products ?

    Michelle
    I think that it was or even before this it was already I wear jeans at home but that’s just me but I think before this there was a category of indigo knits that was starting to explode. Everybody’s just waiting until they can figure out how to do it more efficiently so that’ll probably grow. I see that category growing but I don’t see it replacing denim because that’s more of an emotional purchase – jeans are still comfortable.

    If you’re talking about the comfort aspect of it there knits would be the biggest but there are obviously there are fibers that create a bunch of comfort , stretch comfort .That’s the thing about this pandemic is that all of the things that we’ve been doing along the way more slowly focusing on comfort stretch that exploded several years ago. Tencel ,for example, on the market now creating comfort everywhere and it’s exploded into denim in the last few years. Those things have already been happening slowly but surely plugging along. Now everything gets kicked into high gear just like sustainability everything is getting kicked into high gear out of necessity.

    Sandeep
    How the supply chain is going to survive ? What we are hearing is so many orders canceled ,so many stores closed, so many factories lose workers out of work .What do you think what will happen to the supply chain and how they the people, the workers will survive ?

    Michelle
    I think it’s gonna be hit really hard .The saving grace in some countries will be that from an employment perspective –not an inventory perspective – but there’ll be some help from governments but not every government is going to do that .Those countries where the government’s help will kind of ease the way a little bit and in terms of inventories I mean people need to honor their orders that’s the bottom line.They need to honor their orders even if they ship it longer-term .I mean if you think about the supply chain there is a top of the food chain and a bottom of the food chain. I think that the folks at the top of the food chain are that have to honor their orders so that when we do recover there are places to produce things. They can wipe folks out if they cancel completely – they need to come together and maybe you know take some sort of reduction but not cancel the whole thing.There was a million ways that they can handle this but they need to honor the orders that’s my personal opinion.

    Sandeep
    It’s a moral responsibility and it is also part of the sustainability talks that we have been doing for so many years and know it’s the time to really walk the talks.

    Michelle
    Yeah the people are part of this.To that point I think the consumers we are all in this together right not just a supply chain, not just the retailers and brands but the consumer is also a part of this. They’re gonna recognize those companies that act responsibly now and that act from a place of humanity and they will  remember that too . So it behooves everybody.

    Sandeep
    What we have been hearing from different thoughts going around the world is actually many of the retailers, many of the factories the factories who don’t have so much cash flow they may not survive and at the end of the day we’ll have retailers who are very strong surviving and we have the factory so very strong who were surviving and also the mills. So I mean will that be actually a more balanced situation where we actually are in a production situation right now? If we talk about till now what has happened is actually an overproduction.We are producing and over selling and over buying , so maybe after this rebalancing ,we are actually looking at the new balance being created between the supply chain.

    Michelle
    I think that there is a rebalancing that needs to happen for sure is  that is probably the point of this whole thing but I don’t know that if these smaller producers without the cash flows need to go away . Instead of that it would be great if they can be absorbed into the larger ones that are nearby . There needs to be some sort of balance and it has to include the least of us.It has to , otherwise this whole thing was just a big waste of time. If this pandemic doesn’t show us that we need to care for the folks who have less and figure out a way to absorb them maybe into these larger businesses or convert them to other like maybe cotton growers get converted into food sources But there needs to be a way to make sure that the least of us is protected.

    Sandeep
    In China you know after this disease have been sort of controlled now, what we can see in China the consumers coming back to shop .They are actually quite happy to shop because they’ve been confined to their homes,  they’re going out there to eat and visit places and  shopping a quite a bit. So do you think this is a similar response we might have in Western world when, let’s say after three months, everything is okay and you see people rushing to shop and go. Of course they will be meeting friends and family and all those things but do you think you see them shopping?

    Michelle
    Well I think it depends on what part of the world you’re talking about because I feel like in the US and in Europe there’ll be an aspect of people that just have cabin fever and they need to go out . So restaurants probably will see an uptick but in terms of shopping I think that people in the West are kind of reevaluating what’s important.Do I really need 20 pairs of black boots? I mean so people will start shopping again but they’ll be more mindful about about how they shop. I think China has probably a socially a different perspective  about shopping and I think that in the West we will probably think a little bit more about what we buy. We will still buy but we’ll think a little bit more about we do.

    Sandeep
    What are the biggest positives you see coming  from this situation?

    Michelle
    I think the biggest thing -and this is gonna sound weird – because we’re all so part but I feel like the biggest thing is that everybody is connecting more.First of all we have more time to connect. There are people in the industry that I speak to all the time   but now I have time to reach out to those people in the industry that I never speak . Like you -we never talk -you know we we talk once or twice a year maybe you know so I think that’s kind of a positive thing that people are reaching out to each other that’s one thing . The other thing is that it forces us to become a little bit more ingenious about an intentional thinking when this is over how do we move forward and  people are coming up with ways to to use technology . For example,  to help us when we can’t get on a plane and fly 15 hours to get to where we need to be to review a sample.So  I think that it’s using ingenuity and having the time to really sit down and think about those things we never have the time before because we’re moving too fast.

    Sandeep
    In terms of digital usage how easy or difficult you are finding work digitally?  Or how fast you are adapting to this digital communication and do you think let’s say if we have to continue this for a long period of time does it work out ?

    Michelle
    Well for my business because most of my clients are in other parts of the world, I work that way anyway. I only really had one major client in New York that I could actually get on the train and go visit but most of mine are all around the world anyway . So I’ve always worked this way I mean but I still got on a plane and and have to go places but maybe they’ll even be less of it but we found ways digitally to to review things.

    Sandeep
    I just want you to know if you want to say anything else to so many friends of ours who  are watching you.

    Michelle
    Yes I miss you guys. Well I I do miss my denim community. We are a tight-knit group and we will get through this together. Thank you so much and stay safe . Namaste!

  • COVID Times – A Talk with Dilek Erik

    COVID Times – A Talk with Dilek Erik

    Dilek Erik is a well known denim consultant based in Turkey and has been working with different companies in the denim supply chain for over 2 decades . Her exposure across the supply chain gives her an insight to the working of different segments and she shared the same during the IG Live talk with Sandeep Agarwal. We reproduce the talk below :

    Sandeep 

    Hi Dilek, How are you? 

    Dilek 

    Hi Sandeep, I am good, thank you. I hope you’re also doing fine and safe. 
    Sandeep 

    How’s the situation in turkey?

    Dilek

    The situation in Turkey is not that so good, we’ve had the first case of COVID19 in the month of March and now every day it is increasing and increasing by every day. Over 16,000 people have been infected so far and more than 300 people lost their lives. People here are saying that it’s just the beginning, the worst is yet to come. So we are very afraid and not going outside. Most of the places are closed here and the government has advised not to go outside. 

    Sandeep
    What about the stores and Retailers’ offices? Are they operational?

    Dilek
    Most of them are closed now, only a few pharmacies stores are opened in the malls. Most of the garment stores and offices are closed, even if some are working, they are working for a very limited time.

    Sandeep
    What are things which are going to be changed post-pandemic, the shopping pattern per se or consumer priorities?

    Dilek

    I believe the change has already started. Digital solutions were already in our lives but we were not using these or If I may say we were not serious about these options. But now we’ve realized its importance. Something will change eventually, maybe not very quickly but over a period of time. This is a very good chance for us to reorganize our work, reorganize our time, reorganize the way we’ve been doing our business. So I think in one day, nothing will be changed but it will be changed very soon over a period of time.

    Sandeep
    How’s the situation going into the Turkish Mills? We’ve been hearing a lot of news of cancelation from most of the mills around the world, is this so in Turkey as well

    Dilek
    Of course! It is the same in Turkey as well. If No one is buying what is the meaning of producing? So yes, there is a lot of cancellation from brands and retailers. And most of the responsible companies have already stopped their production because if 500 workers will be working in a factory, they can infect each other or they can take the virus to their families. For example, Sharabati Denim decided to close the factory two weeks ago and most of the other factories including Bossa have already closed down. So every responsible company should stop the production even though there is a demand, priority must be the health of the workers, your communities because when all this pandemic will be over, you may not find right workers for your company as they might have certain reservations or perception about your company. 

    Sandeep
    I’ve heard that buyers have agreed to pay for the current orders, what about Turkey? Have  Turkish Mills and Exporters also received such assurance? Also what about the garment workers? 
    Dilek 
    So far as the brands are concerned, I do not have much information about it. The big companies in Turkey have not announced layoffs yet, they would like to protect their workers as they do not want to lose the trained workers. Also after every health crisis, an economic crisis also comes along followed by a political crisis. Considering the current situation, I do not think the current government would be able to hold its position in the upcoming years.
    Sandeep
    From the designers’ point of view, how are they changing or adapting themselves? What are they thinking about the situation and how are they coping with?
    Dilek
    I think about 3 years ago in your 1st India show I made a presentation and I talked about how the social changes will affect fashion and I tried to explain (I’m still trying to though) that the big social changes not come in one day, it comes after a long time, maybe after a decade or two. 
    These days, we’ve been living three major social changes. One of them is Women Empowerments or Gender Equality, Unisex fashion let say and it changed fashion. The second thing is Sustainability which is being talked about quite a few times and the third thing is Technology. Whenever we talk about technology, we think about computers or laptops or the internet. We’re not using technology in fashion yet, only a few companies and that too in very limited ways.  This is going to change.
    We need to develop smart habits and smart fashion. Whoever develops smart fashion and connects it with the right technology and finishing will last for a long time. Smart fabrics, which were developed by Levis in a partnership with Google, and these kinds of innovations will be required in the coming years. So this is the future and creates more and more demand. 

    Sandeep
    Do you think Globalisation will take a back seat after this pandemic? We hear that the brands and retailers may not prefer to produce 5 thousand miles from their country and will preferably go for regional sourcing or near-sourcing, what do you feel ?

    Dilek 
    I think so, also there will be a paradigm change in the presentation of the products and also in the ways exhibitions have been happening right now. The concept of online sourcing has already been introduced and much more will come into the picture very soon. We are now doing video shoots of our products and involving more and more digital solutions. We always talk about sustainability, but nobody is stopping their travels which also adds to our contribution to the carbon footprint. I believe that people will now understand this and think seriously about it.
    One more thing in global context that I believe is going to happen in the coming decades is the centrality of the power and we could see a Minister of Health or Minister of Textile for the world, not for a state. 

    Sandeep 
    Are we going to be seasonless?

    Dilek
    It depends on the development of fabric. For example Coolmax, you can feel cool in summer but in winter it doesn’t have any impact. Therefore I again assert that it again depends on the smart fabric. And technology will help the industry to go seasonless.

    Sandeep
    What are your thoughts on the Homewear category? Are we going to see a spike in its sale as most of us are spending a lot of time at home these days?

    Dilek

    I think it maybe it will increase but I believe people are already buying a lot of homewear products as people always want to look good. 

    Sandeep
    Are we looking at the end of fast fashion?

    Dilek
    We always say less is more and good, but we do not practice as all the brands push people to buy more and more by offering discounts, so we need to be a little more honest. We talk about sustainability but if we sell like this, I do not think this is a sustainable practice. We should focus more on quality and long-lasting products but I don’t think this is happening very soon, it will take time. 

    Sandeep 
    What are the positive takeaways for you from this pandemic? 

    Dilek

    I am a very positive person. I feel due to this people start to value their relationships with their families. Also, the use of digital tools will be increased. This is a kind of reset button that was needed for the environment also. There is always a pool of opportunities due to new problems, and people will realize the importance of people around them and the community they are surrounded by. 

    Sandeep
    Thanks, Dilek, it was a pleasure talking to you. See you soon. 

    Dilek 

    Same here. Hope to see you soon. 

    Video link of talk with her .

  • COVID Times- A Talk With Sedef Uncu Aki

    COVID Times- A Talk With Sedef Uncu Aki

    Continuing the series of talks , today we speak to Dr Sedef Uncu Aki – Director of Orta Anadolu , Turkey – and try to find from her how things are shaping up in Turkey and how she thinks our industry will be affected by Covid 19 . We bring the talk Sandeep Agarwal had with her last week and the video of the talk is also given under this article.

    Sandeep:
    HI Sedef, How are you? How is everything in Turkey?

    Sedef:

    Hello, first of all thank you very much for inviting me. This is a very different world in this situation.Well, the situation in Turkey is not that drastic right now.We are one of the lucky ones in Turkey , we are in our farmhouse right now.

    In Turkey , we have over 40K cases out of which 60% are from Istanbul. Travel between cities are abandoned. Restaurants are closed and only take away is available.These are the precautions as of now. It is not at the peak yet , therefore people are requested to stay home.Government are taking strict measures based on the numbers statistically right now.

    Sandeep:
    What about the factories? Are they all closed?

    Sedef:
    Most of them are closed including fabric manufacturers. Most of the garment manufacturers are also closed. Some of the big ones are producing masks for the government which is a good thing. Many of the  local brands  are producing masks. As Orta, we started taking precautions very early like banning travel , social distancing , quarantine etc. We have decided to close the factory last week of March for 2 weeks and after analyzing the situation we planned to restart from 20th April but we will be communicating weekly based on the situation. It is something which is not in our hands and is forcefully done for the safety of all the employers because that is the priority right now. We feel that it is not safe for hold  production. Besides, all the other garment factories, countries are  closed like Turkish manufacturers, Italian companies, Tunisian manufacturers etc.

    Sandeep:
    We are seeing that current crisis is  going to be a huge impact on the industry. So what do you think say for Turkish industry , what will be the impact of this pandemic on the customers and Turkish industry ?

    Sedef:
    There is the effect on the customer side for sure. Communication is key during that time. Talking about the pandemic – it is  very  unusual in that sense. It affects both demand and supply side. It all started with questions about if we see any risk in sourcing since everything was only in China and it seemed as if it would stay there, the supply side. When things got really complicated when Europe and later The USA was in the picture, than the demand side respond. We did not receive many cancellations of the orders but customers suspended some of the orders as they did not know when do they want the shipment. That was the real communication what we did in the beginning. Next wave we encountered was a request to delay in the payment terms like 60-90 days delay in terms of payment they wanted.The second wave after this was the discounts on the shipment due to the crisis. Some of the companies communicated very well with complete list of what is happening and what can be done. This is a good way as we are all in this together. It is a chain reaction and things should be negotiable. So the reaction is very different for different companies.

    Sandeep:
    I think in current times the communication is very important. How the customers talk to the suppliers and how suppliers communicate with the customers because this is something both of them will remember post pandemic. Maybe if you are lucky in couple of months we are through with this pandemic and after that people will remember which customer really behaved in what way at that time or which supplier behave in what way in that time. So it is really important I think that both of them have to be empathetic to understand each other’s problems and try to find the joint solution.

    Sedef:
    Exactly, we should think from both the perspective and not only our individual perspective by being selfish.

    Sandeep:
    We have been taking views from different people that post pandemic there will be a big change in how sustainability is viewed. Some of the people are saying that sustainability will become much stronger force and people would be focused on goods which are really sustainable and which are transparent .On the other side, you know either there is feeling you know feeling that post pandemic, most of the companies whether it is suppliers whether its brands , retailers , their entire supply chain , everybody will be in a very weak financial situation .In last couple of years,  we really did not make a huge progress in sustainability because probably people didn’t want to invest that much as they needed to . So now post pandemic , when companies are not really in a position to invest on sustainability, Do you think sustainability as a focus probably would gain for the momentum?

    Sedef:
    There are 2 sides of it. According to a consumer perspective, we have got a break. Consumers now have a break in their spending and they will get more time to think about what they are doing.This may lead them to re-evaluate what is the value of spending money on goods. So my view is that we must value high quality , more durable , sustainable products. I think this pandemic will go down in the history as a great global reset in the system and the consumers really start thinking about these values. I am sure not 100% of the consumers will do this way but I hope at least people start thinking about valued products if this continued for longer which I hope not. Consumers will be thinking about sustainable features. On the other side, I found insincere how brands and retailers, most of the brands and retailers react to this pandemic. Before this, they were auditing us both environmentally and socially, asking us about employee rights, any investments for sustainability. We, as the industry made a huge effort to deliver the compliance. After this happened they turned to survival mode. And first reaction they want to extend the payment terms, and second wave they started asking reduction of the sales price of shipped goods, without thinking how the supply chain will survive. This should be a collaborative discussion with all parties together. Not all the brands and retailers are doing it that way.

    At ORTA, our brand partners and retailers are our collaborators, and together we will co-create a new denim ecosystem that works for each of us and for the greater industry. Together, we are HERE4GOOD.

    Sandeep:
    May be the definition of sustainability changes where the focus on human factor is more than on the environmental factors. Whether you are taking care of your workers and employers may be the priority rather than environment . So we might not focus as much on some aspects such as  water less or chemical less as of now immediately after the crisis ?

    Sedef:
    What I think is , the future of production depends on the circular fashion and it might not stop the way it is done. We use engineering to sustain the production in this way. We make long lasting jeans, high quality jeans, and also now we have a lot experience in sustainability about how we can optimize the percentage of recycling in the product for example. And these do not require big investments. So these questions are the ones on which we should work.

    Sandeep:
    Yes right , in this we do not require so much of investments.

    Sedef:
    It is not like they are pushing us to make sustainable products but it is also our mission since the beginning of 2000s.

    Sandeep:
    It is the direction in which in any case we have to move in. Whether there is this pandemic or not , that direction is always there. How fast we move, certainly depends on so many factors.

    Sedef:
    We definitely need to re-evaluate all the processes. Because this pandemic helps us to think and we should continue to use this resilient thinking in our decision making as well.

    Sandeep:
    As you mentioned health and wellness are the important factors. For these factors, do you think is denim is probably going to move in a direction  of a kind of technical textiles where we have so many performance based results as well a number of applications to be done on denim ?

    Sedef:
    In denim production, during the washing step , even though it is lasers or sustainable steps , you literally take out some part from the fabric. Mostly the surface of the fabric is treated with anti- bacterial and anti-microbial techniques. sot he wash resistance is not high in this type of applications. we use fibers instead to provide these technical properties. There are different solutions that we can use to improve the process of denim technical fabric procedure. But when I think about the real technical fabric , there are some regulations that you should pass.So I don’t think denim is a very technical fabric in this sense.

    Sandeep:
    As you said , consumers might change their view on spending and will focus more on values.But this change may be different in different regions. So there might be different reactions in different parts of the world in terms of post pandemic reactions.

    Sedef:
    We have been discussing and zooming with the team regularly. There is a term called REVENGE SHOPPING – which all the countries might see specially countries like China. But in Europe , they are focusing on understanding the situation. 90 % of the stores are open in China but total spending has been decreased by 50 %.Therefore people are not starting to shop right away. What we have seen so far from the previous world crisis is that consumers take 1-2 years before they actually they regain their interest for shopping.

    Sandeep:
    In terms of product categories , do you think this kind of crisis will create new product categories like we talked about health and wellness ? I have been looking at many kind of designer masks individuals and brands have been making – do you think these kind of fashion accessories will become a regular part of our life.

    Sedef:
    I don’t really support the kind of makeover masks and people matching the masks according to their dress. I don’t think it will be a category but digitalization will be another category. As we have been following social distancing, there is digital closeness right now. And companies should think this as a new way of personalization in communication and business solutions. This is ‘digital closeness’. You can consider this tool not only for communication but for also co – creation too.

    Sandeep:
    Yes you are right. Even after this pandemic is partially over , people may still won’t like to go out and meet when they can digitally contact with each other.

    Sedef:
    Yes, they will be much more comfortable . Even I won’t think of wasting my time going out when I can do it digitally.

    Sandeep:
    Okay , coming back to denim again , what are the 2 biggest changes you see in the denim character after this pandemic?

    Sedef:
    Durability, Built for life, and sustainable, circular design .We are focused on developing eco net-positive, high quality fabrics. We are engineering for durability and long-lasting comfort and performance, optimizing our usage of recycled cotton, both pre and post-consumer, and creating revolutionary new levels of water- repellency, self cleaning, anti-bacterial, thermoregulating products.
    We should always ask for value both good quality and an emotional value.These are the main characteristics and should be carried way long.

    Sandeep:
    What are the main 2 positives you find from this current situation?

    Sedef:
    I am very happy seeing the picture of blue skies and no pollution now.So , I am personally very happy to see this environment everywhere.

    Sandeep:
    I think when we will come out of it , we will feel like animals coming from the zoo.

    Sedef:
    We should really realize that we are not the boss.

    Sandeep:
    Do you want to say to all our friends who have joined this conversation?

    Sedef:
    Thank you so much for the opportunity. It is really good to be connected this way. Hope to see you soon in person.

    Sandeep:
    Yes , now we see how important this is and how good our lives were in terms of social contacts ! . Thankyou so much for being there as a part of the discussion.